Why won’t Occupy St. Pete renounce unlawful, uncivil and violent acts? PREPARE YOUR KIDS OVER THANKSGIVING!

Why won’t the Occupy movement, across the nation and in Tampa Bay, reject uncivil, unlawful and violent behavior?  The recent growth in such actions in Oakland, New York, Seattle and elsewhere is raising alarm among law-abiding, peace loving citizens. These unacceptable actions include: rape, assault, vandalism, graffiti, attempted kidnapping (“citizen’s arrest”), attempted breaking and entering (“appropriating unused property”), blocking public streets and bridges, invading and disrupting private meetings, shouting down others exercising their right to free speech, public lewdness and defecation and many others. For instance, rather than respect the right of hard working citizens to take a break at St. Petersburg’s “Chill Lounge”, the Occupy St. Pete crowd decided to ruin those people’s hard earned night out by protesting “something” on the sidewalk.

Sun Beam Times founder Dr. McKalip has been working – within the movement – to learn more about the branch in our city, Occupy St. Pete, and to influence their leadership to reject violence and embrace peace. While they have no problem agreeing with with Occupy Wall Street movement’s “Declaration of Occupation“, so far they are declining to sign the MLK declaration of Non-violence. They had declined even discussing specifically rejecting unacceptable behaviors in St. Petersburg. The following was posted on their “forums” section at the Occupy St. Pete website, but the first version was deleted and this reporter was “banned permanently”. After appealing the decision to their de facto leader, Chuck Terzian, I was permitted back on and posted again. The request for peaceful action was then moved from the “Local Action” workgroup and put in an area with little traffic and the only response generated from their leadership (an unnamed “administrative User”) reveals that there is no interest in discussing the merits of this proposal, but more interest in avoiding the topic all together. (Multiple attempts to address this issue on various Occupy St. Pete Facebook forums have been similarly rebuffed)

Thanksgiving is coming and it will be a good opportunity for parents, friends and family to have a private, non-confrontational, conversation with College Students coming home for a few days.  Advise them that the path of violence will ruin their lives, the lives of their families and their country.  Ask them to think about the peaceful means to change the admittedly corrupt system of crony capitalism and emerging socialism in our country.  Ask them to think about the real roots of the problem, Big government in an unholy alliance with crony corporations and the Federal Reserve.  Maybe just ask them to focus on their studies and leave the troublemakers behind on campus for now.  It is reasonable to want to fight to stop injustice in College, but the Occupy movement is loaded with people who want to break the law to fix it. That is an injustice. The movement is also dominated by openly and proud socialists, communists, anti-capitalists and other elements that have advocated violence and revocation of our country’s most valuable asset: the limited government REPUBLIC created by our constitution.  God Bless all during Thanksgiving and God Bless America.

Here is the deleted and then ignored post by Occupy St. Pete.
Maybe these are good talking points to use for your kids over thanksgiving

Occupy Saint Petersburg Forums» General» Life, the universe and everything»

Author Topic: Embracing peaceful, effective means for change and renouncing violence (Read 25 times)Top of Form


Embracing peaceful, effective means for change and renouncing violence

« on: November 16, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »

Hello all,

For some reason a similar post like this was deleted. Hmm.

So here we go again. Here is my opinion of what you need to do to be effective. Please don’t complain I use assertive language like “you need” etc…. THat is jus the way I advocate for things.

I suggest that you need to first come up with some things you want to accomplish. It is not enough to complain about problems anymore. You need to identify the cause of the problems and offer solutions.

You need to engage in non-violent and well-prove effective ways to win. Elect who you want to support your agenda. Go to government meetings and testify. Organize grassroots coalitions to pressure elective officials with letters and phone calls.

There appear to be many in the OWS movement (not predominate in OSP) that seem to want nothing more than a process to create chaos. They appear to want to violate the law and want to provoke confrontations with the police or invade private property. This is not an outcome, this is a technique that leads to more govenrment crackdowns, martial law, less freedom and pain and suffering for all.

So I ask that you issue a written statement to reject, as OSP, the following. I would issue it in a press release and be specific. At the same time indicate the peaceful actions you will do to effect change.

1. Violence against others. murder, rape, assault etc..
2. Confrontations with police or others that provoke violence.
3. Vandalism and graffitti.
4. “Citizens arrests” to abduct a person who is not in the act of committming some obvious crime (like rape or active breaking and entering). This is kidnapping and it is ridiculous to do this to a bank exec. suspect of a white collar crime.
5. Blocking and obstructing streets, ports, businesses and the like.
6. Entering private property, even if it is in “disuse”.
7. Entering and disrupting private meetings.

1. Free speech
2. peaceful assembly
3. Observing reasonable laws designed to protect public safety and the rights of others.
4. Elections
5. Petition to the government and mass communication to public officials.
6. Private actions such as charity to help people.
7. Private actions such as growing local banks and local businesses to allow distance from global and large crony corporate powers.

Thank much for listeninng and I hope noone finds a reason to delete this again,


David McKalip, M.D.


Re: Embracing peaceful, effective means for change and renouncing violence

« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 03:23:05 PM » 

I have moved this thread. This does not belong in our Work Group sections.

Working Groups seek to “work.” If you have no interest in working (as in contributing time, resources and cash) to this movement then please refrain from posting in the Working Groups or attending group sessions. I understand that the rules have not been stated but a list of reasonable forum rules will be posted soon.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 03:26:31 PM by administrativeuser »

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Re: Embracing peaceful, effective means for change and renouncing violence 

« Reply #2 on: Today at 10:02:28 AM »

Offering good suggestions for action is “work”. I disagree with your moving this thread and point out that you are not revealing your name and are making decisions that are purely arbitrary.


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4 Replies:

  1. Chuck Terzian

    David, this post and the piece contain false info and accusations in it. It seems you can’t play nice with others. The tone of your pieces have been negative consistently in regards to OSP. It is good to have opposing voices as it helps to strengthen ideas but it cancerous for any organization to have those within it who are actively working against it.

    While I personally appreciate the vote of confidence and although my voice is well-respected from what I gather, I am not the de facto leader of OSP. Many hard working individuals who have put in more work than I, would be very upset with such an assertion. Our consensus process doesn’t allow for a hierarchical head of the organization as well. You know all of this well, and yet you write what you did. This is discrediting to you and unacceptable behavior from anyone whom would claim to hold reason and honor in high regard.

  2. Chuck Terzian

    In the first paragraph of this piece you insinuate that the Occupy Movement doesn’t reject rape and other forms of violence. I find it hard to believe that you have data to prove that Occupy St. Pete. or any other Occupy has said they are ok with any of these violent actions. Just because a statement of rejection hasn’t been made a priority for a group doesn’t mean it doesn’t reject those things. For example, I am not constantly going around and telling people that I reject violence, animal cruelty, etc… unless it is part of the conversation I am having. I simply do not have the time to focus on such things. Each Occupy group may have other priorities than to address this particular issue. But I bet there are some that have addressed this in places where it was a part of the conversation. For instance:


    “A day after some protesters clashed with riot police, set fires and shattered windows in Oakland, Calif., demonstrators across the country condemned the violence and wondered whether it was a turn that would destroy their cause.

    “They don’t speak for the majority of people who were here yesterday,” said Hadas Alterman, a college student who was gathering trash at a tent camp near Oakland City Hall. “That was an hour of action, and we were out here for 12 hours, and it was peaceful.”

    The protest outside the port, which reopened Thursday, represented an escalation in tactics as demonstrators targeted a major symbol of the nation’s commerce with peaceful rallies and sit-ins.

    The violence that followed, however, raised questions about whether a movement with no organizational structure and no high-profile leaders can do anything to stop those they called troublemakers.

    So far, few cities have reached the level of Oakland, a unique place with a long history of tensions between residents and police.

    Bob Norkus at the Occupy Boston camp said the riots didn’t represent the broader movement and likely wouldn’t have a lasting effect on it, either. The movement is still evolving and mistakes are inevitable, he said.

    It “has to be nonviolent, or else it will just end. We won’t get the support,” he said. “It doesn’t mean you can’t agitate people. But you can’t also be breaking windows and burning.””

  3. Chuck Terzian

    Towards the end of the first paragraph you say, “decided to ruin those people’s hard earned night out by protesting “something” on the sidewalk.” That “something” is very clear. It is clear from the link that you provide that the reason for the action was to bring attention to Mr. Edwards’ business practices. The text of what particular business practices of Bill Edwards that were highlighted by OSP is below:

    “Chillounge is a promotional campaign for St. Petersburg business mogul, Bill Edwards. Mr. Edwards has a history of holding profit over people. His company Mortgage Investors Corp. has made $4Billion in revenue selling Adjustable Rate Mortgages to veterans. On 10/4/11 his company was sued as part of a whistle blower lawsuit along with major national banks that cheated taxpayers and veterans out of hundreds of millions of dollars. Mr. Edwards, a former veteran, tries to hide behind a facade of community service and development. However, it takes more than monetary donations to charity to make a person charitable.

    Mr. Edwards sits on the welcoming committee of the 2012 RNC and will be entertaining some of the most corrupt individuals in the world very soon. We want it to be known to him and to others that the whole world is watching.”

    And while I know a few people didn’t like the idea but I seriously doubt any or many had their “hard-earned night out” ruined by the voices of a few people with signs. It appears that you don’t support free speech when you state things like… “For instance, rather than respect the right of hard working citizens to take a break at St. Petersburg’s “Chill Lounge”, the Occupy St. Pete crowd decided to ruin those people’s hard earned night out by protesting “something” on the sidewalk.” At least it appears that you support people’s “right” to take a break over another person’s right to free speech, free speech being a right explicitly written in the Bill of Rights and supported by numerous Supreme Court rulings where as the right to take a break is not explicitly in the Bill of Rights or has ever been ruled on by the Supreme Court that I know of.

    Replying to this sort of mischaracterization and outright falsehoods requires time. This is why others find it difficult to work with you. This is why I find it difficult to work with you. I personally believe you have good intentions but your actions belittle your intentions. I spoken with you about this before, it is not your intentions that I doubt, but your delivery diminishes your ability to achieve cooperation towards common goals.

  4. David McKalip

    AT every attempt to engage in rational conversations I have been rebuffed. I raise theses issues on the forum and am “permanently banned”. I raise them on the Facebook page and am ridiculed as a “troll”. I raise them at the general assembly and am accused of putting my political aspirations above the truth.

    Why not have OSP reject violence? you have gone out of your way to announce sympathy with the Declaration of Occupation? It is a simply thing. I think the fact is that most people in OSP EMBRACE these bad activities (not the rape) but they have consistently SUPPORTED Citizens ARrests, occupying unused private property, blocking public streets, blocking ports. They refuse to denounce vandalism and violence against businesses and openly support taking over public space and private buildings. That is why it is not denounced…it is suported. It is not that I am “difficult to work with”. It is that the movement members reject the rule of law and the civil order.

    The movement goes out of its way to state what obejective changes it would support in society. Thus, you are left with people to draw their own conclusions. If your movement refuses to adopt a cause and identify with it, people will put the label on themselves. They will be right most of the time.

    Regarding Chill Lounge – what is accomplished by trying toi distract people from a good time when they are out? Do people in the Tea Party movement or other social clubs march around the and inside the Globe or South STraub Park and chant and hold signs while you are trying to conduct your business? This is a terrible double standard that you an dyour movement adopt. You think it is okay to violate the free speech and peacable assembly rights of other but would not TOLERATE that occuring to you!

    Your movement is about to become out of control. You claim you are not a leader and there are no leaders. NONSENSE. This is a top down group with obvious leaders. There are leaders we don’t even know milling around in the background pulling the puppet strings. I feel sad for those in your movement who are being used and don’t even know it. Good Luck Chuck.

    ps. You are going to need it. You should read my piece from yesterday at http://sunbeamtimes.com/​2011/11/27/​occupy-st-pete-secretly-tar​geting-individuals-busines​ses-and-public-spaces-for-​direct-action-self-righteo​usly-reject-liberty-and-cl​aim-to-be-the-just-rulers-​on-which-we-can-rely.aspx

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